Lolita Jablonskiene and Evaldas Stankevicius invite us to a metaphorical eating place, somewhere in between the parameters of East and West. As curators and art critics they are both based in Vilnius, Lithuania - the geo-metric centre of Europe. This talk was originally given on October 24, 1998, in Lisbon on the occasion of the Baltic/Swedish/Portugese exhibition and seminar "Distant Lighthouses". Please, help yourself. by Lolita Jablonskiene and Evaldas Stankevicius

Lolita Jablonskiene (LJ): We were honest Evaldas Stankevicius (ES): and conscious LJ: when choosing a topic for this talk. Taking into account the specificity of our times, we found various geo-sections: geo-graphical, geo-political, geo-cultural (and self-evident, geo-metric, geo-central) - to be the most instrumental. These questions provoke ambivalent answers, or give no answers at all. ES: Questions pose questions. "This talk is about semi-East and semi-West. The most suitable way to start it seems to be with a hearsay about the idea once expressed by a journalist that a seeming boundary between East and West Europe is not fixed. It glides depending on the place it is being observed from." Jablonskiene LJ: The topic of our talk "East at Breakfast - West at Supper" is neither here, nor there. However, it was formulated in Lithuanian language. ES: Here the title explains itself by itself. In another language such formulation sounds like a hushed up metaphor or mere nonsense. LJ: In Lithuanian, the words, marking the geographical parts of the world, belong to a vocabulary which marks a traditional rhythm of the food consumption: breakfast can be read as semi-East, lunch - as semi-South, dinner - as South, afternoon snack - as semi-West and supper - as West. This talk is about semi-East and semi-West. The most suitable way to start it seems to be with a hearsay about the idea once expressed by a journalist that a seeming boundary between East and West Europe is not fixed. It glides depending on the place it is being observed from. You'd say "to the East from Rhein, and to the West from that river". Nothing of the kind - looking, say, from Portugal this "wall" begins from a much nearer distance than it ends, observing, say, from Russia. "From the point of Western positions - yes. However, Great Russia looked upon the Baltic republics as West or semi-West countries." Stankevicius ES: In every different historical period a boundary was marked anew. At present a traditional conception of a boundary-frontier is the result of the economic-ideological-territorial division of two systems. In the 19th century, when the concept of East and West Europes appeared, the scheme was similar but referred to a territorial-administrative dependance. The boundary separated not fundamentally different blocks or systems but the territory of European states and that of the Russian Empire beyond which and in which the real East (Asia) begins. LJ: The geo-metric centre of Europe is in Lithuania (this is a scientific fact), at a distance of some ten or so kilometres from the capital city - Vilnius. Historically, Lithuania had been always balancing between being beside Russia or in Russia itself (similarly like Latvia and Estonia). We are on the intersection which is formed by two great ellipses constantly covering each other. A spiritual coordinate of our region, indeed, is some "semi-East". ES: From the point of Western positions - yes. However, Great Russia looked upon the Baltic republics as West or semi-West countries. For the people of this Great Russia (Soviet Union) it was and still is a territory which belongs to conditionally alien, i.e. Western culture in respect of religion, mode of life, customs and in a general mentality sense.     However, one should acknowledge that historically, not only as geographically different traditions, East and West Europes had been divided "since age - since old times". Alike North and South Europes (just recollect Hippolite Taine - the North and the South - two different beer and wine cultures). The searches for the intersection spot of these ellipses will lead to the conclusion that it is somewhere at the middle Rhein or the Danube. Then, this place could be considered to be the seeming 0'0'' coordinate. "In East Europe this institution also functions, though, here is another vital and significant "identity-preserving mythology" - the Eastern "spirituality"." Jablonskiene LJ: The concept of East is of a political character, on the whole. It was maturing in the context of the political history of West Europe, even more in the medium of the colonial West European policy. The Far East, the Near East are perceived not only (and not rather) in a geo-graphical but also geo-political respect. The category East-Europe is also political, it was finally formed in the 20th century in the process of the fall and dissemination of the West European empires. ES: Let's take Islamic countries. From a Westerner's, even my point of view, their state-religious fundamentalism is an atavistic nonsense. But I suppose that looking through their, Muslim, eyes - repressive Western fundamentalism also exists, making an attempt to force and implant its ideological model in alien structures or environment. The East fundamentalism bases itself on religion. LJ: In the West religion is privatized. The European fundamentalism bases on a political institution - democracy. In East Europe this institution also functions, though, here is another vital and significant "identity-preserving mythology" - the Eastern "spirituality". One should not forget that in the majority of East European countries, such as Lithuania, Poland and others, a public and cultural consciousness is still being strongly enough influenced by religion and the ideals of national romanticism. ES: The starting point of the Western system is a pragmatic and repressive (in respect of self-preservation) democracy, and here (in East Europe) - a romantic institutionalized idealism, characteristic of all the nations restoring their identity. LJ: We speak about East Europe as a region. I wonder whether West Europeans perceive themselves as some West European region as well? ES: A regional thinking, as we understand it at present, is a very late phenomenon. In the Middle and New Ages, a territory as a region was perceived or called as a sphere of certain interests, most frequently egoistic ones of one institutionalized subject. Now a region is a community of egoistic interests consciously declared by a few or even more institutionalized objects on a determined territory. LJ: It seems that regions have become particularly visible after the global internationalization. ES: Yes. The evolution of regional logic witnesses that the first regions formed in Europe were of a religious character. In Europe, as a certain geographical-territorial unit, there existed two gigantic, at first somewhat non-articulated but clearly stating their differences regions of the East and West churches. It should be added that Lithuania seems to have been the only European state, which still being pagan institutionally, had to self-determine which church to belong to. The existence of this dilemma determined that Lithuania was the last to be baptized in Europe. Finally, Lithuania decided to choose Western Christianity consciously, it was not imported or thrust on by force (as in Latvia or Estonia). One more interesting fact should be mentioned here that in Lithuania, due to purely political-administrative motives, an original Union Church was established, as an institution uniting both Eastern and Western confessions. LJ: When speaking about the dispersion of culture and art in the 20th century, it is reasonable to say that modern culture has two supports: regional and international (more exactly - transnational). Between those poles, the imaginary net, constituting a cultural life, is being woven. " Every culture, as soon as it regains its right to independently decide and develop, is similar to an open wound. The reanimation period is very changeable, painful and short." Stankevicius ES: Transnational culture does not exist in a pure shape. There is only a transnational cultural net, and in separate cultures there always exists a certain amount of local addresses, which formally represent this net. However, they, and together every local culture, remain original in respect of the interpretation of transnational. LJ: The region witnesses the functioning of collective consciousness. Here, the collective community of culture is supported by language, the common historical experience and traditions. The transnational net is more spacious and broader, to compare, it consists, however, not of collectives but of separate individuals. "It's a paradox but obviously they are the same former West European "colonies" to which a West European of the end of the 20th century returns as to the "land of the lost dreams"." Jablonskiene ES: The only really transnational and cosmopolitan category is the net itself - an ideal, digital, Phytagorean space of telecommunications. LJ: The space itself is transnational, but the receivers of the transmitted information are separate individuals. They make use of the net but do not necessarily automatically become its elements. ES: According to a prominent Lithuanian philosopher, the only self-evident and absolute change which has taken place after the restoration of independence is the invasion of mass transnational culture. LJ: I don't think this is a 100 percent truth. Together with the mass culture, to our fortune (or misfortune), a new elite culture also started to knock at the door. If the first, however, is being consumed without any efforts, so the second, even at the initial stage of its consumption requires more time, because professionals and institutions take time to grow up. ES: Every culture, as soon as it regains its right to independently decide and develop, is similar to an open wound. The reanimation period is very changeable, painful and short. The speed of changes and the acceleration of the digestion of information determine the emergence of strange, original, infantile or sophisticated phenomena in culture. The results born by the force of need, not by habit, become even more interesting because an East European suffering from a bookish existentialist "anxiety" creates under the influence and obsession of Western experience. LJ: The end of the 20th century is a kind of a time for new "old" discoveries, particularly in the cultural section. There emerge all kinds of events that continuously surprise us, for instance, exhibitions organized in specific non- traditional places: Muslim countries, Africa, "non-classical" Far East as well as in East Europe. It's a paradox but obviously they are the same former West European "colonies" to which a West European of the end of the 20th century returns as to the "land of the lost dreams". ES: One can look upon it both as an inspection of the effectiveness of Western ideology and of the amount of implants of Westerners' habits. "The joint direction of representation (not only in Lithuania but also in a lot of East European countries) was stimulated and partly is still stimulated by not a natural integration of culture and art into international context, but rather by political processes and the possibilities for cultural exchange created by them." Jablonskiene LJ: The transnational cultural net, which is constantly threatened by the danger of uniformity and internationalization, by way of spreading its tentacles towards non-Western centres, simply makes an attempt to replenish itself by "other" individuals - more than just to replenish itself with regional colouring.     A direct experience is the best witness. How successful is Lithuanian contemporary art in the process of integrating itself into the elite context of transnational art?     With the opening of "independent" roads for Lithuanian art to the wide world, the most prestigious status was enjoyed by retrospective collections, pretending to embrace a wider or narrower section of contemporary art. The joint direction of representation (not only in Lithuania but also in a lot of East European countries) was stimulated and partly is still stimulated by not a natural integration of culture and art into international context, but rather by political processes and the possibilities for cultural exchange created by them. ES: But in this way an "imaginary" museum of Lithuanian contemporary art was formed, the museum which has taken deep root in our consciousness. Today, the representation of Lithuanian art abroad witnesses an evident split up into a growing amount of individual initiatives which first of all speak of the diminishing number of totalitarian rudiments in a cultural self-consciousness. And on the other hand it testifies to the end of the "privileged" transitional period. LJ: So, what is the state of our "integration"? ES: Cultural integration develops only through consumption - how many phenomena, created by others, you consume and vice versa. In other words, cultures echo each other only through the consumption of the products created by each of them. Another point - which ingredients separate cultures select from the mass meant for consumption. LJ: Sometimes even the closest neighbouring cultures find no need to collaborate. For instance, the pre-war Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, in the process of the creation of new independent states, had a tendency to present their culture and art in a more self-dependent way. They can boast of very few joint exhibitions of art or their exchanges. The greatest manifestation of "unity" were reached only at the World Expo exhibitions. In recent years, however, Lithuanians, Latvians and Estonians have been always together in international projects. It is self-evident that in the course of 50 years spent under Russia's (now Soviet) influence, we got used to perceive ourselves as an "integral Baltic region". ES: In the first half of the 20th century , there did not exist any geopolitical and geo-economic structures, which could have stimulated regional formations. It is also reflected in the character of cultural collaboration. In recent years on the contrary - Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians are automatically perceived and presented together both in political and economical international projects. Of course, it is not only due to the Western perception of the Baltic region. In the course of fifty years we felt our duty or an inner necessity to distinguish ourselves as a separate region of the Soviet Union.     Some years ago, every person with general cultural understanding, viewing a joint art exhibition of Baltic countries, was able nearly a 100% to identify the work's "national" face. Now, it would be next to impossible to do that. There has not survived the ingredient of evolution(development), frozen in Soviet times according to a national logic but within the limits of the Soviet syntax. LJ: However, let's be honest and not forget about the existence of the imaginary East European type of contemporary art. The majority of Lithuanian, Latvian and Estonian artists fit this archetype. ES: The development of art in the first half of the 20th century was inspired by the Western tradition. What was achieved during the inter-war period - i.e., during barely two decades of intense cultural searching and development - became the unquestioned, and therefore mythologised moral foundation and reference to an independent, distinct history and cultural order for the following half-century of Soviet occupation.     Two basic principles for the creation of art works emerged. On the one hand, "correct" expressions of conformist reality; on the other hand, the search for metaphoric "depth" in and through "spiritual" form, while quietly circumventing content (which was understood as ideology), or replacing it with the allegory of "the desired." The practice of destroying representation with images was perfected to an extreme degree. As a result of the above-mentioned a unique Aesopian artistic language of footnotes developed. Prohibition (or, more accurately, the deception of prohibition) was the main consolidating and harmonising principle. "Our time due to a legalized and dogmatically oriented antidogmatism can be called a carnival phenomenon. During a carnival, paradoxically opposite actions were allowed in a limited space and time." Stankevicius LJ: The classical West European modernism was also semi-nonconformist. It did not firmly say either "yes" or "no" when negating something opposite, a reference to a "position" always remained. In Lithuania as well as in other "self-secluded" countries after the second World War, it was canonized in spirit. Thus, the semi-nonconformism was also canonized. Only Post-modernism started to boldly declare whether it was openly conformist, or openly non-conformist. ES: As early as the beginning of the 20th century, the crystalization axis of identity was religion or general ideology (communism, fascism), now only the paraideological function performing dependence for the present time exists. LJ: That's why it is angry with Modernism cultivating the proposition that the erosion of a romantic culture was caused by its attachment to totalitarian thinking, vision, in other words, to a coordinate. However, Post-Modernism is not quite "relaxed" either, it is also looking for its coordinate, even when making an attempt to capture more elements of life and environment, making them to become culture. "Westerners move in time and we - East Europeans - in space?" Jablonskiene ES: Our time due to a legalized and dogmatically oriented antidogmatism can be called a carnival phenomenon. During a carnival, paradoxically opposite actions were allowed in a limited space and time. Therefore, the carnival has loosened the 0'0'' coordinate and used to vulgarize and even reject the comfort of universal One. Today the cruciform of the system of coordinates is indiscernible and unpredictable due to that paradoxical, carnival character of the present time. The earlier existing comfort of a metaphysical One has not survived. That means the absence of a single absolute hanger for the products of consciousness and culture. In this situation, it is easier for East European cultures because we still cherish that future (E.U.) vision. We have at least the coordinate of the possibility we hope to reach. I am not sure if Westerners have it, it may be a stability, the status quo of the habit. LJ: Westerners move in time and we - East Europeans - in space? ES: However, on the whole, something like a traditional waiting room has disappeared, so, there also does not exist the one waiting-for. There is no coordinate 0'0'' either. LJ: What is after all the score of our talk? Is it possible to count the points for and against geo-cultural strategies? We have mentioned that the perception of region in highly politicized. ES: And economicalized. Still, within the limits of an individual region there are great financial and organizational advantages in the "management" of cultural and artistic life. LJ: Minus No 2 - in the frame of a region there's always a danger of similarization of creative concepts. The East European art is literary, sharply emotional, politically and socially engaged. ES: That is to say, a regional conjuncture appears. Not institutional, but that of perception and judgement. "One cannot help comparing this with the rehabilitation of a prisoner and the power of a supervising and remaking institution to make a decision on the declaration of amnesty." Stankevicius LJ: But, here, I can see some positive aspects as well. Similar conceptions are also prerequisites of their adequate thinking and more accurate interpretation. Again a minus: regionalism is a favourable medium for the thriving of conservatism. ES: I would say more a habit. A habit is a ritual, which is possible only in recurrence, and recurrence is tradition. LJ: On the other hand, in a closed surrounding an "outstanding" individuality sparkles in a much more prominent and effective way. Here, every revolutionary act is a superview. But - remaining within the limits of regional thinking is a dangerous "self-seclusion" tendency in a political, cultural and economic sense. It is currently if not stimulated so at least supported also by outer factors, stretching first of all from West Europe, including the European Union, too. It seems to be a kind of building of the "new Berlin wall". In the sphere of culture and art, the production corresponding to an East European archetype is particularly highly encouraged. "Now, a void of centre transnational culture takes their place, which enables one to reason not about the East at breakfast and West at Supper but - the East at supper and West at breakfast, for instance." Stankevicius ES: The advantage of the "non-admission" to an European context is also the fact that the "non-admitted" cultures are still "ailing", unfinished, i.e. interesting because not dogmatized. LJ: But a "Western glance" also contains an unpleasant "taste" of the searches for exotica. An incompletely mature, unfamiliar contemporary culture is viewed as an exotic phenomenon. ES: This is also positive - exotica forces to look at. LJ: After all - is it right to say that today we are watching the decentralization of Europe and even in a broader sense that of the whole World? ES: No, it isn't. Perhaps only in a sense of abundance of information. Surely, there have not survived any traditionally existing major monopolistic "digestion centres", which acted according to a centrifugal principle. Now, a void of centre transnational culture takes their place, which enables one to reason not about the East at breakfast and West at Supper but - the East at supper and West at breakfast, for instance.~